Too much too soon - first date

[INFJuniper]

Not sure how active this forum is, but figured I'd post my questions concerning an ENTJ here.

[...]......[Deleted] by admin

My questions: 1)Is this part of some game. Not calling, saying he lost my phone number and waiting more than a month to send this message?
2.) He did tell me I'm genuine, do you think the "breath of fresh air" is genuine?
3.) Is it possible he felt degraded to have given me oral *** (expecting I would try, although he never said that I could intuitively pickit up) and I not to have returned it?
4.) Is this just a guy that doesn't know how to connect with women outside the bedroom? He insulted the waitresses at both restaurants, especially the ones he knew and they ignored him but liked me. I almost wondered if some of them he had been with because he lives in such a small town.
5.) How much of this sounds like ENTJ behavior? I was surprised by his cockiness, especially since he has such nerdy looks and (forgive me for saying this) I'd be surprised if he found better than me. The girl would have to have a toughness (not sensitive) or emotionally wrecked. Is it ENTJ behavior to examine everything about the girl physically?

btw I'm an INFJ, for those of you that know myers brigg.

Thanks in advance, I'll check back later this week.

[GOD]

Not sure how active this forum is, but figured I'd post my questions concerning an ENTJ here.

[...]......[Deleted] by admin

My questions: 1)Is this part of some game. Not calling, saying he lost my phone number and waiting more than a month to send this message?
2.) He did tell me I'm genuine, do you think the "breath of fresh air" is genuine?
3.) Is it possible he felt degraded to have given me oral *** (expecting I would try, although he never said that I could intuitively pickit up) and I not to have returned it?
4.) Is this just a guy that doesn't know how to connect with women outside the bedroom? He insulted the waitresses at both restaurants, especially the ones he knew and they ignored him but liked me. I almost wondered if some of them he had been with because he lives in such a small town.
5.) How much of this sounds like ENTJ behavior? I was surprised by his cockiness, especially since he has such nerdy looks and (forgive me for saying this) I'd be surprised if he found better than me. The girl would have to have a toughness (not sensitive) or emotionally wrecked. Is it ENTJ behavior to examine everything about the girl physically?

btw I'm an INFJ, for those of you that know myers brigg.

Thanks in advance, I'll check back later this week.

INFJuniper,

This isn't a *** forum so I have deleted all the graphic references, it isn't required to put across psychological implications, as they say "too much information". Sites such as ivillage.co.uk can more than answer such problems.

However here's some feedback on the remaining questions posed.

1) Guys don't call when they are not into you. It’s as simple as that. When his physical urges overcome his lack of interest and he will make contact. Otherwise he will say aloof. *** and emotional connection for guys can be separate events. (A shy person may have difficulty making a call, but his initial exploits rule that out).
2) I've heard better pickup lines in my time, and besides why is the air so stale around him??
3) Jury is out on that.
4) The waitresses might know far more about him than you do. The waitresses are being nice to you because they probably think you are nice. Seriously though, you can learn a lot about people by the way they interact with others, how they treat people that serve them in restaurants and so forth (e.g. he think he's better than people and treats those whom aren't "equals" with contempt).
5) Sorry, but he sounds an arse. He probably doesn't know himself and he's low on emotional intelligence. I've got a feeling that he's probably got some money and a nice car (to impress the girls) although he's generally tight with his money.

Lastly, I don't think what you've said really has that much to do with psych type. I'd really say that you should understand guys more before becoming what I believe to be as "easy prey" (I've seen it so much in clubs etc, Understand "players" and you can rule them out quickly). The first x dates you need to almost obliquely test your date until you feel comfortable that the person is reasonably aligned to your expectations (Like you want a relationship etc).

Anyway, women I know say "you have to kiss a few frogs before you get a prince".

[INFJuniper]

INFJuniper,

This isn't a *** forum so I have deleted all the graphic references, it isn't required to put across psychological implications, as they say "too much information". Sites such as ivillage.co.uk can more than answer such problems.

However here's some feedback on the remaining questions posed.

1) Guys don't call when they are not into you. It’s as simple as that. When his physical urges overcome his lack of interest and he will make contact. Otherwise he will say aloof. *** and emotional connection for guys can be separate events. (A shy person may have difficulty making a call, but his initial exploits rule that out).
2) I've heard better pickup lines in my time, and besides why is the air so stale around him??
3) Jury is out on that.
4) The waitresses might know far more about him than you do. The waitresses are being nice to you because they probably think you are nice. Seriously though, you can learn a lot about people by the way they interact with others, how they treat people that serve them in restaurants and so forth (e.g. he think he's better than people and treats those whom aren't "equals" with contempt).
5) Sorry, but he sounds an arse. He probably doesn't know himself and he's low on emotional intelligence. I've got a feeling that he's probably got some money and a nice car (to impress the girls) although he's generally tight with his money.

Lastly, I don't think what you've said really has that much to do with psych type. I'd really say that you should understand guys more before becoming what I believe to be as "easy prey" (I've seen it so much in clubs etc, Understand "players" and you can rule them out quickly). The first x dates you need to almost obliquely test your date until you feel comfortable that the person is reasonably aligned to your expectations (Like you want a relationship etc).

Anyway, women I know say "you have to kiss a few frogs before you get a prince".

God, thank you for your response. I apologize if I went outside the format of this forum.
In response to a couple of your responses

2.) The answer, in my opinion, for the air to be so stale around him is probably because he's living in a small town where most of the girls are in relationships at the age of 13 and most are mothers by the age of 18. The nearest big city is 2hrs by train. It baffles me at how he could have treated me, considering I'm a once in a blue moon prospect for him in the locality. I'm 2 towns away, but pass by his residence almost everyday at work. And a double yes on the pickup lines, I've resisted much better. Its unfortunate that I thought I could do this in a non-commital fashion and my heart wouldn't be affected. Maybe having worked 16hr days the week before put my defenses down too. Originally thinking he looked like a friend type, but not foreseeing the turn of events. Honestly I was only excited to find someone who was into foreign films as much as myself, most are close-minded in this area to it. Or lack of patience for subtitles.

4.) I agree I did learn a lot by the way he treated others. He even said he sees himself as pretentious and he looks down on the locals. I asked for an explanation, but he had a hard time explaining.

5.) Your evaluation of his character is comforting. Umm yeah, he may have money - but he's tight with it. When he gave me water in his apartment he shares with his brother, the water was warm and in a mug. He pretty much had no cookwear. Barely any pictures, the place was pretty much empty. The bathroom had barely anything. His personal hygeine items were minimal. He blew his nose a lot - not sure if allergies. In the morning his brother was awake (had his girlfriend over that night, but never saw her) and his buddy was there. The guy made introductions, his brother looked at me flirtatiously (10yrs younger than me, better looking than the guy I was with 4yrs older) and his buddy just looked down at the floor (he didn't want to make any eye contact when I addressed him). The other guy looked like scuz. I was emberessed, but the guy I was with had no qualms like it was normal.

In the restaurant the guy kept putting down the staff and as he'd shout, he'd look the other way like he was having some high off of it. He didn't want to make any eye contact at all. But it almost seemed like he was doing that to avoid having any emotional connection or conversation with me.

The car he drives doesn't impress me, stick shift dully. But for this county or locality, girls are very impressed with big trucks. While I'm turned off, I've traveled quite a bit of the world and am more the suburban country type with city connections. Because almost everyone has a truck in this area, I try to keep an open mind and not judge the guy based on him owning a truck. I'm not a car person at all and the guy I've been going on dates with locally own trucks. I'm more the sedan volvo type, wishing I had an old mercedees.

An additional interesting note he's into stunt bike racing. He'll ride on one wheel for long distances and has been to NYC block parties, 500 or so bikes invade the city. He showed me a video. There's some namedropping he did in the motor industry, but it goes over my head and boors me. I almost wonder if he's looking for that calender girl type he can up his status and business with.

As far as avoiding players, I've probably avoided too many to count over the years. They all do have different ways, I'm beginning to understand. The online scene though is a new thing for me, started it about 7months ago, some good and bad experiences. I've not treated it as a means to an end. And clearly stated this in my profile. I'm looking at the learning experience and figuring out what I'm looking for in a long term relationship. I have found that if a guy talks about the bible, I've got a weakness. And I almost think it was the moment that the guy mentioned above opened the bible and showed me where he was at, things changed. And after he told me something I had been considering the past 2yrs, having a healthy medium between the two extremes, I was sold.

Your last setence, most definitely I will agree on the "kissing a few frogs" theory, but I was hoping to not actually have to kiss any of them, just go on dates. As of current there are two guys sort of pursuing me and I've decided to take a break from the online dating thing. One I was adviced against 5mths ago when our corrispondance started and he's 10yrs younger, but as he's gone through some military training with basic and AIT I've seen some maturity. We'll see, I'm supposed to meet him in December. He's pretty much adjusted to all the standards I've set forth and brakes I've put on, so our meeting will definitely have to be a daytime thing. The other guy is of good character, but no attaction yet. We went on a couple dates a month ago, he's keeping a good pace (I've communicated that I need space).

Back to the guy mentioned orginally, his last message through the dating site gave me has given me a little bit of release. Knowing he's not angry at me and isn't going to smear my reputation in this area (that was one of my concerns, besides a lil bit of paranio he had some cameras in his room), two he's ok if I'm already in a relationship, and three he just might continue to read his bible and become my fellow brother in Christ down the road. Although this extended evaluation of a guy seems a bit of a waste to some, I still consider the experience valuable and something to be learned from. Hopefully its a stepping stone towards better things.

My resolutions for future dates - its better for a good bye at the door, a hug might be appropriate, lunch dates are less awkward, need to keep the first date short on time so as not to extend into evening when my defenses are down, and not to talk about my past on the first couple dates. I think these measures will appropriately give me time to see their character in a safe environment. Thanks again, sorry about the lengthiness. This has all helped a lot to sort out my thoughts.

[GOD]

2.) The answer, in my opinion, for the air to be so stale around him is probably because he's living in a small town where most of the girls are in relationships at the age of 13 and most are mothers by the age of 18. The nearest big city is 2hrs by train.

I can imagine (and actually know) what living in small town can do for you. If you don't have anything special it’s just a long and slow cruise towards old age.

It baffles me at how he could have treated me, considering I'm a once in a blue moon prospect for him in the locality.

Some people will treat others with whatever they can get away with. Its like kindness, few people extend it without some form of payment.

Its unfortunate that I thought I could do this in a non-commital fashion and my heart wouldn't be affected. Maybe having worked 16hr days the week before put my defenses down too. Originally thinking he looked like a friend type, but not foreseeing the turn of events. Honestly I was only excited to find someone who was into foreign films as much as myself, most are close-minded in this area to it. Or lack of patience for subtitles.

As I've discussed with others I know, never go out unless you are "on a roll" When you’re positive you make and attract good things, when your down you make concessions.

4.) I agree I did learn a lot by the way he treated others. He even said he sees himself as pretentious and he looks down on the locals. I asked for an explanation, but he had a hard time explaining.

Obviously he's not had any quality women in his life. Still though, small towns can be very chauvinistic. Cars, beer, football...

5.) Your evaluation of his character is comforting. Umm yeah, he may have money - but he's tight with it. When he gave me water in his apartment he shares with his brother, the water was warm and in a mug. He pretty much had no cookwear. Barely any pictures, the place was pretty much empty. The bathroom had barely anything. His personal hygeine items were minimal. He blew his nose a lot - not sure if allergies. In the morning his brother was awake (had his girlfriend over that night, but never saw her) and his buddy was there. The guy made introductions, his brother looked at me flirtatiously (10yrs younger than me, better looking than the guy I was with 4yrs older) and his buddy just looked down at the floor (he didn't want to make any eye contact when I addressed him). The other guy looked like scuz. I was emberessed, but the guy I was with had no qualms like it was normal. .

Sounds like bogan central.

In the restaurant the guy kept putting down the staff and as he'd shout, he'd look the other way like he was having some high off of it. He didn't want to make any eye contact at all. But it almost seemed like he was doing that to avoid having any emotional connection or conversation with me.

Small town guys are almost caught up in a time warp, they really don't develop any female friendly skills, it’s like they hit mid teens with football beer and cars and just stay there for the rest of their lives (gross generalisation but you do notice it quite a bit).

The car he drives doesn't impress me, stick shift dully. But for this county or locality, girls are very impressed with big trucks.

lol... too true, small town people are impressed by a whole set of possessions and attitudes that are different to what you get used to when you move out. People can grow out of small towns.

While I'm turned off, I've traveled quite a bit of the world and am more the suburban country type with city connections. Because almost everyone has a truck in this area, I try to keep an open mind and not judge the guy based on him owning a truck. I'm not a car person at all and the guy I've been going on dates with locally own trucks. I'm more the sedan volvo type, wishing I had an old mercedees.

I'd say any guy that liked anything else would be classified as gay. In small towns you seem to be either in the crowd or outside it, its not like you can be partially in lots of crowds because they simply don't exist.

An additional interesting note he's into stunt bike racing. He'll ride on one wheel for long distances and has been to NYC block parties, 500 or so bikes invade the city. He showed me a video. There's some namedropping he did in the motor industry, but it goes over my head and boors me. I almost wonder if he's looking for that calender girl type he can up his status and business with.

It’s important to him, and evidently it should be important to you.. Or, that’s what makes him better or known in town so he's impressing and talking about himself. Did he ask about you? Guess not, he doesn't know what women probably even want or like...

As far as avoiding players, I've probably avoided too many to count over the years. They all do have different ways, I'm beginning to understand. The online scene though is a new thing for me, started it about 7months ago, some good and bad experiences. I've not treated it as a means to an end. And clearly stated this in my profile. I'm looking at the learning experience and figuring out what I'm looking for in a long term relationship. I have found that if a guy talks about the bible, I've got a weakness. And I almost think it was the moment that the guy mentioned above opened the bible and showed me where he was at, things changed. And after he told me something I had been considering the past 2yrs, having a healthy medium between the two extremes, I was sold.

America is a very (what I'd call strange place) there are some amazing contradictions in the previous paragraph; religious people should in theory be very conservative with traditional values.....

Your last setence, most definitely I will agree on the "kissing a few frogs" theory, but I was hoping to not actually have to kiss any of them, just go on dates. As of current there are two guys sort of pursuing me and I've decided to take a break from the online dating thing. One I was adviced against 5mths ago when our corrispondance started and he's 10yrs younger, but as he's gone through some military training with basic and AIT I've seen some maturity. We'll see, I'm supposed to meet him in December. He's pretty much adjusted to all the standards I've set forth and brakes I've put on, so our meeting will definitely have to be a daytime thing. The other guy is of good character, but no attaction yet. We went on a couple dates a month ago, he's keeping a good pace (I've communicated that I need space).

Back to the guy mentioned orginally, his last message through the dating site gave me has given me a little bit of release. Knowing he's not angry at me and isn't going to smear my reputation in this area (that was one of my concerns, besides a lil bit of paranio he had some cameras in his room), two he's ok if I'm already in a relationship, and three he just might continue to read his bible and become my fellow brother in Christ down the road. Although this extended evaluation of a guy seems a bit of a waste to some, I still consider the experience valuable and something to be learned from. Hopefully its a stepping stone towards better things.

My resolutions for future dates - its better for a good bye at the door, a hug might be appropriate, lunch dates are less awkward, need to keep the first date short on time so as not to extend into evening when my defenses are down, and not to talk about my past on the first couple dates. I think these measures will appropriately give me time to see their character in a safe environment. Thanks again, sorry about the lengthiness. This has all helped a lot to sort out my thoughts.

Lastly, the only thing I can say is that most women I've spoken to have always said that "making guys wait will make them respect you more". I agree with that, most guys actually do want to meet someone they are proud of. Always respect yourself and expect of others the same... and invariably they will.

Ps: I've read this a second time... and it sounds like I am really beating down on small towns, possibly it’s my own life experience growing up in one and getting out while I retained my sanity... but small towns are nice and safe and everyone knows everyone... very appealing to some people.

[INFJuniper]

First of all I want to thank you for your in depth answers God. I posted this on one other forum and got some short answers to just look inside my own faith. While true, its too quick an answer that sorting through this has helped me in dealing with some old things from 1992 long forgotten.

I enjoy sometimes taking things apart and examining them, like the foreign films played at the local university. The guy here had gone with me and he was an emberressment. After the film is over the leader of the foreign department has a discussion. Usually there are students there for extra credit and older women/men in their 60-70's. I seem to always like to put my thoughts in when a question is asked, university is sort of my niche. The guy I was with said something like, "I don't see why we need to discuss this, I found it just purely good entertainment". I think the only reason he said something is because of his need to dominate or masculinity, not sure. He had been in theatre at that university at one time.

Obviously he's not had any quality women in his life. Still though, small towns can be very chauvinistic. Cars, beer, football...

Interestingly he may have. The last girlfriend he had of 2 years went off for her masters in Washington DC. He said they ended it because of distance. The prior date to me was a month ago and he said the woman said she still wasn't over her divorce. My area is very high in the divorce, single mother category. I've never seen as many two - five times divorced people. Yes there was beer cans everywhere in the apartment.

Sounds like bogan central.

Had to look that up, funny. There's quite a few trailer parks in that town and the two restaurants are truck stops. There are some pretty girls, but not much classyness.

Small town guys are almost caught up in a time warp, they really don't develop any female friendly skills, it’s like they hit mid teens with football beer and cars and just stay there for the rest of their lives (gross generalisation but you do notice it quite a bit).

Yes, I'm beginning to see this. A 21yr old I tried being friends with over a 4-5 month period, ended up wigging out in my house. We were cooking and preparing a dinner and he was like "why do you trust me?" I thought, what I don't understand. Why should I not. He thought it was neat that he got to use my shower. Considering I've traveled and slept and crashed at many male friends apartments, its no big deal to me. But for a guy that considers himself a redneck, he can't compromise the two. He really wigged out when my friends started talking about getting together for surfing on the lake. This guy was eventually released from my workplace. He got worse after the night I spent with the film guy. I should have picked up the signs early on, obsessed with all the details of my life, knowng my scent when I was in a room and him telling me he needed a break because his mind was going crazy with thoughts. He went over to the thinking that all women are evil, but I think he confused the issue because he told me he used some of the younger women. I think there's other factors, but in the 5years I've been living here I've found time and time again the country boys have a hard time being "just friends". Without it being "friends with benefits".
College was the most idea environment to be freinds with many, especially living in the dorms. I miss those days. sorry I really didn't mean to drone on like that.

I'd say any guy that liked anything else would be classified as gay. In small towns you seem to be either in the crowd or outside it, its not like you can be partially in lots of crowds because they simply don't exist.

Kind of, I think the guys who are city boys in local towns get away fine with sedans. But I find it humorous that someone would compromise their identity to fit in. My landlord said back in the 60's he stood out because he was into sailboating. I'm into surfing and I get some looks from country people, but I just can't compromise that part of myself.

It’s important to him, and evidently it should be important to you.. Or, that’s what makes him better or known in town so he's impressing and talking about himself. Did he ask about you? Guess not, he doesn't know what women probably even want or like...

Yes, it would have been important to me if I saw a friendship developing, but he really didn't care to get to know me. Just examine and get to know my body parts and the name brand of my glasses (rayband). Having been in a relationship for 2 years, I don't understand why its so difficult for him to get to know women. I felt like a science project more than anything in the bedroom. Like when you go through steps in a dance class, hard to explain, but not much natural to it. If I'd never done any of that 16yrs ago, I'd be turned off to a guy ever doing anything again and maybe never want to marry.

America is a very (what I'd call strange place) there are some amazing contradictions in the previous paragraph; religious people should in theory be very conservative with traditional values.....

Yes, I'm a living contradiction. Very conservative - especially dating standards, but very very liberal in thought. I have friends of many backgrounds, both conservative and liberal. Cliquey people tend to turn me off, they'll try to make me one of them, but I go the other way because its just not me. And I've lost some people I thought were freinds because of this, but I'm not a sheep.

Lastly, the only thing I can say is that most women I've spoken to have always said that "making guys wait will make them respect you more". I agree with that, most guys actually do want to meet someone they are proud of. Always respect yourself and expect of others the same... and invariably they will.

Very very true. Spring of 2006, a guy I was highly attracted to and on the edge of my faith called to tell me we couldn't meet. This was somone I'd gotten to know in the work place over 4months and had to leave - long story. He told me he got back with his girlfirend, my thought was that it was a manipulative technique, but I chose to honor it. I told him that we couldn't meet and that I wished him the best with her. He had been one foot in and out of the realtionship before and I was happy to see him make a strong decision. He was astounded "Your not going to say 'You ba*stard?" I told him about a similiar decsion 12 years earlier. He said that he was surprised by my integrity and that maybe we should meet. Anyways, for 2 months I picked up the phone every day but didn't call. This was the first guy I had ever fallen so hard for. I wrote a story on him and had just finished it 1 year and 3 months later when I recieved a call from him. He was in Afghanastan with the Army. He said that the decision I made was the piviotal point when he knew he'd have to contact me again. He said he would of had an ego boost if we had met, but that would have lost respect for me. I ended up having to break things off again 8 months later because of things said, we never made it to our first date, but he did keep me above his mom, exgirlfriend and any of the new girlfriends on his myspace page. I still wonder if he will try pursuing me in another 3 years after he's finished with the Army and relocates back where his kids and exwife are. Hopefully I'll be married or in a relationship by then. Sorry this is so long, but yes on more than one occasion I've noticed that the waiting brought good results.

Ps: I've read this a second time... and it sounds like I am really beating down on small towns, possibly it’s my own life experience growing up in one and getting out while I retained my sanity... but small towns are nice and safe and everyone knows everyone... very appealing to some people.

Yes, I understand and I find them refreshing. I like getting to know locals when I travel. I just know though when it comes to a long term relationship I probably am not going to mesh well with someone that hasn't gone off the beaton path. Thanks again for your time.